Round Robin Comments

Ingvar Demker
SP Sveriges Tekniska
Forskningsinstitut
SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden

ingvar.demker@sp.se

I must say that your initiative is most welcome, OFI runs their interlab-test (link), in which we participate on a yearly basis, but it doesn't cover the sport sector.

We will be looking forward to see how this can help and improve the sport facility testing laboratories both internal and, not the least, in the struggle against certain sports governing bodies.

SKZ - TeConA GmbH
Dipl.-Ing. Udo Dengel
Friedrich-Bergius-Ring 22
97076 Würzburg
GERMANY

u.dengel@skz.de

As being a laboratory with an accreditation according to ISO/IEC 17025 we fully support your thoughts about the round robin tests. These inter-lab testings should meet the criteria of ISO 17025/IEC and should have professional execution and support. This would give the govering bodies or quality control associations the certainty that the labs work according to the standard, carry out the tests correct and produce reliable test results.

Every year we participate in several round robin tests to prove that our results are reliable. Therefore we also would be very interested in such proficiency tests in the scope of sport floor testing.

At the moment we do not have any suggestion for improvements or changes to your proposal for a scheme.

Cologne would be a good opportunity to talk about more detailed plans.

We absolutely agree with your opinion about the round robin tests. To prove with a football on a football turf that you are able to carry out the FIH handbook tests would make no sense to us.

Comments on version V2

G4:OFI in Austria carries out round-robin tests ("proficiency tests", pts@ofi.at, Dr. Thomas Karall) annually. There is a good statistical evaluation of the data. It might be that they would be able to support the round-robin test of ISSS with their analysis.

G5: Tests to be included on site: all tests which have to be carried out for the FIH homologation for a pitch incl. test of the irrigation system

G6: max. external costs 800,- €

G8: Hockey tests should be in the spot first because FIH has set a deadline for their accreditation

L1: We should start with unfilled turf with a foam backing or a pre-manufactured pad

L2: one or two participating labs should test the samples before or after the round robin test to get an idea about the constancy of all samples

L3: max. 400,- €

International Hockey Federation (FIH)
Roger Webb - Technical Manager
Residence du Parc
Rue du Valentin 61
1004 Lausanne
Switzerland

roger.webb@worldhockey.org

This is very clear - and promising.

ASET Services, Inc. American Engineering Sports And Engineering Services
Paul W. Elliott, Ph.D., P.E.

elliottp@asetservices.com

I quickly read over your proposal. It is a far cry from the current ISSS certification program that in my mind is nonexistent.

The option to conduct lab tests on samples shipped to labs is very much something that I favor. Being one of very few members in the states, it is doubtful that I'll ever ship my equipment to Europe for field testing.

Who exactly would run this program. My current experience with the ISSS certification program has left me a bit bitter on the ISSS group as a whole. One of the main labs here is USSL who constantly promotes the ISSS certification.

Their ties with the management of the program leave many questions in my mind. I wonder why the certification material could never be sent to me during the 7 years that I requested it. A transparent and open certification program would be interesting.

One last thing. Through participation with ASTM, there is a MEP pad required for calibration of the playground surfacing. The advantage of the MEP pad is that it does not change properties over time. A company that I've talked to making the equipment has used the same pad for 10 years or so and it has not change. These pads can be 'cooked' up to different hardness levels. I currently have one in my lab that I use for in house calibration of both the force reduction and vertical deformation tests.

Sports Labs Ltd
Donna Manderson (On behalf of Eric O'Donnell)
Unit 12b,
Nasmyth Court,
Unit 12b, Nasmyth Court,
Houston, Livingston, West Lothian
EH54 5EG

donna@sportslabs.co.uk

In principal we would not object to creation of this scheme as any round robin testing conducted to international requirements sits well with our QA scheme.

We do have other commitments with regards to round robin testing/laboratory assessments. We therefore would need to assess the impact of any new scheme on our existing commitments.

SINTEF
Building and Infrastructure (former Norwegian Building Research Institute)
Arne Sagaas
Responsible for sports surfaces

Arne.Sagaas@sintef.no

+47 22 96 57 86
and
Dag Henning Saether
Responsible for laboratories

DagHenning.Saether@sintef.no

SINTEF - Department for sport surfaces, warmly welcome such a scheme and we are willing to participate at Round Robin.

New Zealand Sports Turf Institute
163 Old West Road
PO Box 347
Palmerston North
NEW ZEALAND
Kevin Oldham
Chief Executive

kevin.oldham@spx.co.nz

NZSTI is supportive of your proposals. Our interest is only in field testing.

The aspects that we are particularly supportive of are:

  • Possibility of round robins in other countries
  • Opportunity to address any issues on the day (ie it's there is not a high stakes risk of falling due to a minor oversight on the day)

A critical issue for us are the number of tests that we need to do each year. FIFA requires 10 per year which is simply not possible in our small market.

In our view all synthetic field tests should count (including World Bowls tests). But even so we would only do maybe 5 per year. I note that the testing protocol is silent on the number of tests that have be conducted per year and assume that there will be no lower limit. We are supportive of that.

FMPA - Stuttgart
Hans-Peter Knauf

hans-peter.knauf@mpa.unistuttgart.de

I would welcome such an open program. We will have our reaccreditation acc. to DIN EN ISO 17025 round acc. to DIN EN ISO 17025 by mid of October and any round-robin testing is welcome.

ILAC
Annette Dever - Secretariat

ilac@nata.com.au

The matter you have raised will be reviewed by the ILAC Executive, however, before commencing this process I would like to confirm that I have your permission to also discuss this issue with representatives from UKAS should that be necessary.

(PERMISSION GIVEN - GT)

You should also note that there is currently a UKAS staff member on the ILAC Executive.

I will be in contact following the next Executive meeting in October, where we will consider the matter that you have raised.

ASET Services, Inc.
American Engineering Sports And Engineering Services

Paul W. Elliott, Ph.D., P.E.

I will admit that I have a bias as I am a lab that is not yet ISO certified. I am working that direction. My question revolves around the roll of the ISSS. As I read the proposal a lab would not be able to participate until it had been certified to ISO or a similar standard.

Once a lab has been certified to ISO, the ISSS certification becomes sort worthless to me. I think I'd be able to promote that I was an ISO lab and that ISO was clearly a larger and more recognized group than ISSS. That is especially true in the states. Also by waiting until a lab is certified, the chance for the lab to make erroneous readings and reports grows. That in my mind complicates the market even further.

There could be a compromise where the ISSS certificate was issued at 2 levels. One for non-ISO labs and one for ISO labs.

However, I really think that simply issuing the ISSS certificate accomplishes this distinction.

JSTIIF.
Yoshihiro Fuchiizumi, JSTIIF Head office

t-oida@kaken.or.jp

and

y-fuchiizumi@kaken.or.jp

We, JSTIIF, don't have testing apparatus specified in FIFA standard. We have never tested articial field according to FIFA standard so, we are not able to participate in FIFA Field Testing Round Robin on November 2009. It means that we lose our status of "Accredited laboratory of FIH" as of 31. Dec. 2009.

But, we are eager to be accredited by FIH for JHA(Japan Hockey Association) and our clients in Japan even after the year 2010.

Although we may apply for FIFA accreditation laboratory status in future, it takes some time.

So that, we do hope that FIH establishes its own laboratory accreditation system for laboratories which apply for FIH's accreditation like us, soon.

In addition, we also do hope FIH accepts your proposal, "ROUND-ROBIN TESTING OF SPORTS SURFACES", for its own laboratory accreditation system.

FIFA and FIH should know that some laboratories which aren't accredited by FIFA want to be accredited by FIH.

Please, kindly advise ISSS and FIH to introduce the proposal and ask FIH to hold round robin test for FIH's accreditation, very soon.

ISSS - International Association for Sports Surface Sciences
8264 Eschenz / Switzerland, Haupstr. 34
email: info@sportsurfacescience.org